I’d Rather Be Backpacking
Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Ethan Gallogly: Sometimes we call backpacking staying in a 10,000-star hotel because, you know, you've just got those incredible stars over you. You're looking up and, you know, there's, there's nothing like it.
[00:00:18] Katya Rucker: Welcome to episode 10 of the I'd Rather Be podcast. I'm your host, Katya Rucker. And today, I'm talking with college professor and recently published fiction author, Ethan Gallogly about his [00:00:30] passion for backpacking.
[00:00:34] Now, if you've been listening to the show, you know that I'd Rather Be is not a podcast that's just for backpackers or pottery makers or long distance runners. Our passions, as different as they can be, have the ability to teach us some of life's most powerful lessons and to transport our minds and hearts to similar places of complete and total peace.
[00:00:58] So, if you love stories [00:01:00] of discovery, of risk-taking, of people following their hearts in a world that constantly emphasizes more material accomplishments, then this podcast is for you. Ethan's version of this journey, his path to becoming a devoted backpacker began when he was in graduate school in California, when a friend visited from the east coast and the two decided to drive to Yosemite National Park.
[00:01:26] Ethan Gallogly: Now I had never ever been in Yosemite, [00:01:30] but it was incredible. I mean the rock walls, the waterfalls, just the majesty of that park was absolutely amazing. And, you know, we decided to take a little day hike and that was kind of funny because I knew something about altitude and gain, but I had never really considered how much climbing affects you when you hike.
[00:01:58] So, you [00:02:00] know, we looked at this map that the park gave us and, you know, we were like, oh, Upper Yosemite Falls, that looks nice. And you know, it's only a three mile hike. We'll do that. And then we'll have some dinner. So we each took an apple and a bottle of water and we set out, not considering all that this was a 3000 foot climb.
[00:02:20] And I mean, we made it a quarter of the way. We were out of water, we were exhausted. But, it was incredible. And I remember [00:02:30] looking around Yosemite and just thinking, okay, I did this one wrong, but I've got to come back here. And the next year I got a book on backpacking, I read it. I went to REI, I got myself a backpack and all the equipment and I set out on a 10 day trip.
[00:02:48] Katya Rucker: It’s a big leap to go from a day hike to a 10-day backpacking trip, but Ethan felt drawn back to Yosemite and was willing to put in the time to read that backpacking book, go to REI to buy some [00:03:00] gear and find a friend who had also never backpacked, but was up for the challenge. He tells me that he made plenty of mistakes as would be expected with anyone's first attempt at anything. But, his biggest one was the amount of weight he ended up carrying on his back.
[00:03:16] Ethan Gallogly: You know, back then I had a frame pack. I had a heavy sleeping bag. I packed way too much food and the wrong kind of food. Um, my pack going into Yosemite and going up this, I mean, we [00:03:30] gained 2000 feet, I think the first day, uh, weighed 75 pounds.
[00:03:35] And, you know, I mean, I'm a big guy, but 75 pounds is way too much. I mean, I felt it when I got in and I realized after a few days that was way too much. Mostly food weight. Uh, I over-packed on food, but also just, just other equipment. I, you know, I had the wrong sleeping bag. I had a very heavy tent. I think [00:04:00] my tent in those days was about six, seven pounds.
[00:04:03] Katya Rucker: Every ounce matters to a backpacker. And these days you can find a reasonably priced tent that weighs between two and three pounds. But setbacks and struggles like the ones Ethan is describing never feel that discouraging when they're embedded in experiences that ignite a spark deep within us. So, what was it that lit that spark and got Ethan hooked on backpacking from this very first trip onward?
[00:04:30] Ethan Gallogly: When you get out into the real wild or into the mountains, there's, there's a majesty of nature. There's a, there's a feeling of being connected to everything and being part of something larger than yourself. And, as you spend more and more time as, as you let go of all the worries of the city and work and you just experience walking [00:05:00] through nature, it's almost a kind of meditation and a kind of dissolving into a greater world.
[00:05:08] Katya Rucker: I know I've caught glimpses of what Ethan is talking about -- this experience of being part of the majesty of nature, from day hikes I've taken in beautiful places like Acadia National Park in Maine. Backpacking can vary widely from spending a single night or weekend out on the trail to spending months on a through-hike, or a long distance end to [00:05:30] end trail like the Appalachian Trail on the east coast or the Pacific Crest Trail, [00:05:35] which is usually referred to as the PCT on the west coast. So I asked Ethan about the differences he has experienced between going hiking and going backpacking.
[00:05:46] Ethan Gallogly: If you're on a day hike, there's always that thing in the back of your mind, like I've got to get back to the car, I've got to get back home. I've got an appointment this evening or tomorrow, you know, and half of your mind is on what's [00:06:00] coming next. But when you're backpacking, even for a weekend, you know you're just going to be camping out there in the woods, you know you're just going to be tenting it. And so you've let go of that stress. You've let go of that need to get back at a certain time and you can just fully experience being out there in the woods and even more so on a long distance hike. But I think what first drew me into backpacking was just that sense of letting go. [00:06:30] That's really the difference, but I think you can get that on a hike. I think it's just, you know, 10 times more when you're, you're spending the night out there.
[00:06:40] Katya Rucker: This idea of totally disconnecting over the course of days, not just minutes or hours, is what really elevated backpacking into even a spiritual realm for Ethan. When he turned 50 in 2016, he decided to walk the John Muir Trail and to end, which usually takes backpackers about a month [00:07:00] and it covers a distance of 211 miles along the Sierra Nevada Mountain Range in central California.
[00:07:07] Ethan Gallogly: I had never done a trip of that length and it had its hard moments. The John Muir Trail is a very arduous trail. Most of it is above 10,000 feet. So I struggled quite a bit with the altitude. Um, I've always had some issues without altitude and just, you know, the weight of the pack.
[00:07:27] I went into that trip carrying a 55 [00:07:30] pound pack, which now, now, now I try to keep my pack under 30. But back then I thought that was light. And, you know, I learned, I learned from the other people on trail and so forth, but it was, you know, just being out there among the peaks and the valleys and the mountains did something to me, it was really amazing.
[00:07:52] And at the end of the month, when I, when I got to Whitney and I had finished this trail, I mean, I, I cried. I was [00:08:00] just so moved by the experience.
[00:08:03] Katya Rucker: Mt. Whitney is the highest mountain in the contiguous United States. And to Ethan's point about elevation challenges, Whitney's peak of 14,500 feet lies only about 3,000 feet above the John Muir Trail.
[00:08:17] For months after getting back to civilization, all Ethan could think about was that trip. And he got really excited when his college asked him to give a talk about the trip and the Muir Trail. The talk ended [00:08:30] up getting canceled, but in prepping for it, Ethan had discovered some fascinating information about the history of the John Muir Trail and he was inspired to start working on a book.
[00:08:40] But he didn't want to write a history book since a history of a hiking trail felt a little too esoteric for a mainstream audience.
[00:08:47] Ethan Gallogly: I thought, you know, if I write a novel, if I put this into novel form, something that'll grab people and get them into this and maybe put it from the perspective of somebody who has never [00:09:00] backpacked, so, you know, a person who has never hiked and never been out there would experience what a true novice -- and the hero of the book, Gil is a true novice, he doesn't even like camping. Um, you know, and, and he goes out and suffers all the things that I did when I was a novice backpacker, and I was making mistakes, you know, but slowly he gets into it and, you know, throughout the story, the, the older character Syd, he, he tells, [00:09:30] you know, little bits in story form of the history of the Muir trail and the history of the Sierra and the Sierra Club and John Muir and all the explorers. And so, I weave that in as, as sort of a sub-theme in the book. And I get to share that. And, you know, just the experience of being out there with the readers.
[00:09:52] Katya Rucker: A central theme Ethan embeds into his book, which is called The Trail, comes from the accumulation of his [00:10:00] many backpacking adventures. And that theme is that recreation, if you say it a little differently, is really re-creation. When we get into nature or engage in similar recreational activities, we're allowing ourselves to go through a sort of transformation where we learn things about ourselves and who we are that wouldn't have been possible to discover in the rush of our everyday lives.
[00:10:24] Ethan Gallogly: I think in our modern world, we've, we've lost that reflection. That time out [00:10:30] where you have nothing to do and you're comfortable with having nothing to do where you just reflect on your life. You think about things and you know, sometimes you don't think, but you just have time to process all the things that have happened. And I think when we get caught up in the modern world, we lose that space.
[00:10:54] And I think having that space, however you get it, is [00:11:00] really, really important. And for many of us, I think that's missing.
[00:11:04] Katya Rucker: Ethan and I talked about some of the ways we can give our minds at least a small dose of this space and time to process, like going on a bike ride or doing yoga, or even taking a walk.
[00:11:16] The key is what we choose to give our attention to because even though our minds can conceivably handle two things at once, like listening to a podcast while unloading the dishwasher, the reality is that we'll only [00:11:30] remember the thing our attention was focused on. Ethan tells me about a time he learned this lesson while he was backpacking along part of the Pacific Crest Trail in Oregon.
[00:11:40] Ethan Gallogly: And I had brought with me audiobooks and I love audiobooks. You know, when I was driving to work, I would listen to audiobooks because traffic is just such a killer. So I thought, okay, I'll bring audiobooks on my hike. And I was listening to one audiobook and it was terrific. Uh, you know, something about [00:12:00] trees, which I thought was fantastic.
[00:12:02] But when I got finished with the book and I started reflecting, I realized that the three days I had listened to that book, I couldn't remember the trail. Normally when you're hiking, when you're backpacking, every detail of the day is stuck in your head, but for those three days of Oregon, it's like, there's a blank space, because that book blanked [00:12:30] out my awareness of my surroundings.
[00:12:32] And so, yes, I mean, hiking with a book or music is terrific, but it's still a degree removed from being completely present. You're being entertained in a, in a sense.
[00:12:45] Katya Rucker: Being completely present can be hard when our minds are so used to the constant stimulation available to us on our various devices, whether that's incoming emails or social media or audiobooks.
[00:12:58] I usually read the [00:13:00] news on my phone while I'm eating breakfast and I can feel my mind getting immediately restless whenever I decide I'm going to eat without reading or trying to figure out the Wordle of the day. But Ethan has had the totally unplugged backpacking experience of going out solo with no audiobooks or cell reception where his mind can be truly present. And this is how he described that feeling.
[00:13:24] Ethan Gallogly: When you go out there and you just have time to reflect, you [00:13:30] process those things that are on your mind, you process those things that are stressing you out. You know, my PhD director used to say, “Why don't you spend more time in the lab?” And I would tell him, “Well, you know, when I get out there in nature, I'm processing all these things.”
[00:13:47] I'm thinking about, you know, these, these different things. And it's not like I'm consciously focused on a project or a question, it's more like I empty my [00:14:00] head and the answers to things I've been struggling with come to me. And I think when we clear our minds, when we don't have that stress, when we relax, that's when the best ideas, the, the most beautiful thoughts, you know, a lot of the inspiration for my book and other things came to me when I wasn't focused on it, but I was doing something else. And then something just clicked, and [00:14:30] it's hard to let go like that. It's, it's hard to, to consciously step away from our pile of stuff to be done on our to-do list. But the biggest lesson I learned is you have to, you really must step away because stepping away is actually what makes everything you do better.
[00:14:52] Katya Rucker: It really is a paradox that in the moments we feel most underwater, like we just have to keep chipping away at our to-do list, or we're behind [00:15:00] on work and up against deadlines, that the best thing we can give to ourselves is a break. And that break can even be a means to an end, if it really needs to be, since plenty of studies show that productivity increases when we engage in creative pursuits outside of work. Ethan has grown to cherish the multi-week backpacking trips he's able to take in the summers, given the flexibility he gets from working as a professor, but he tells me that it's still possible to experience that [00:15:30] amazing sense of renewal in a single weekend out, because every day and night of backpacking is going to follow the same mentally cleansing sequence. Here's how Ethan described a day in the life of a backpacker to me.
[00:15:43] Ethan Gallogly: So it's actually very simple, you know, it's, it's probably the simplest human experience you could have is backpacking. Uh, you wake up, right.
[00:15:53] You probably have to go out to the woods and do your morning business and [00:16:00] then you'll come back. You'll pack up your gear. You'll fold up your tent. I like to get all my gear stowed away before breakfast. That way I get the full energy out of my breakfast, and you'll make yourself some breakfast, usually pretty simple, right? Oatmeal, maybe some coffee. And then you'll just start walking, right. You'll go where you're going. And the big experience is the walk. It's what you see on the hike and all of that. At some [00:16:30] point you'll stop for lunch. Uh, lunch is usually in backpacking, not like a picnic where you'll stop and have a big lunch.
[00:16:38] It's usually, you know, some granola bars and, you know, gorp and other stuff that you've brought. So it's usually sort of an on the, on the go lunch. I'll eat several bars over the course of the day. You'll take breaks at vistas and you know, so forth. And then in the evening, you know, maybe four or five, for PCT [00:17:00] hikers, it might be sunset, you roll into camp. Find a good spot. You set up your tent, you gather water and you know, if you're going to shower or wash off, you go do that. Usually pretty cold, so before sunset is ideal. You set yourself up some dinner and that's it. You know, it, it, it's so simple. It's, you're satisfying the basic human needs while traveling.
[00:17:26] Katya Rucker: “And, what about nighttime?” I asked. “Is there reading [00:17:30] maybe a card game by lantern if you're backpacking with a friend?” Ethan tells me that when you're trying to keep the weight of everything you've brought under 30 or 40 pounds, things like a lantern definitely wouldn't make the cut. He introduces me to the term hiker midnight, which other backpackers will know is about 9:00 PM. When you get up with the sun around 5:00 or 6:00 AM and spend the day on the move, you are absolutely ready to pass out by 9:00.
[00:17:57] Ethan Gallogly: You know, and a lot of people say, oh, I can't sleep [00:18:00] on the ground. Yeah, that's true. The first night or second night, it is miserable. You're tossing, you're turning, it's hard to find that smooth space. And you know, in my book, I have Gil, the protagonist, go through all that, but on the third night for me, I sleep better than I do in my bed.
[00:18:20] And you know, I get a full night's sleep and I, I just love it. And you know, the sounds of nature, they, they put us to sleep. If you get next to a [00:18:30] river, or you've got those insects chirping. It's fantastic. I get better sleeps in the summer in a tent than I do at home in my bed.
[00:18:40] Katya Rucker: I was also curious about some of the general survival skills it might be helpful to have as a backpacker, and the surprising answer was, you really don't need many, especially if you pack things like a first aid kit and a satellite communicator to call for help in areas without cell phone reception. I had assumed that knowing how to [00:19:00] find food in the wilderness would come in handy, and Ethan tells me about what he learned in a class he took on foraging a while back.
[00:19:07] Ethan Gallogly: It turns out, you know, I was talking to one of the instructors once and he said, you know, if you're a single person backpacking, there is almost no way you're going to be able to gather by foraging enough calories to survive out here, and make your walk, because you're, you're burning so many calories while you're hiking.
[00:19:27] You know, you're either going to be in one [00:19:30] place and you're going to have to be hunting and foraging, or you're going to be hiking. So this idea that you can just hike and gather food as you go, it doesn't add up. You're not going to be getting enough calories. You've got to carry them with you.
[00:19:45] Now that said, being able to identify some of the basic plants is wonderful, right? You know, out here on the west coast, there are tons of wild onions, like leeks, that you can gather, and if you mix them in with your backpacking [00:20:00] food, if you know what they are and you mix them in, they make the food a lot more palatable. They're really quite nice. You can toast them, and so forth.
[00:20:07] Katya Rucker: Since I'm on the east coast, I did a quick search of edible plants I might encounter on a hike, and leeks and wild onions grow here too, as do many different kinds of berries, plants like fiddleheads and wood sorrel, and fungi, like chicken of the woods and chanterelles, though, the possibility of mistaking a poisonous plant for one of these edible ones would [00:20:30] definitely deter me from sampling them on my own.
[00:20:33] But to Ethan's point, it's not really feasible to cover long distances while also gathering enough food to sustain your energy.
[00:20:40] Ethan Gallogly: You know food is, is huge and, and there's nothing you can do about it. You need food. So, you know, if you're going to be 10 days, you're going to be carrying 10 days of food. That ends up being about a pound and a half a day.
[00:20:53] So, you know, 10 days of food will be, you know, 15 pounds. That's, that's a huge, [00:21:00] mass of stuff. So you've got to lighten everything else.
[00:21:03] Katya Rucker: Lightening everything else really means what Ethan calls the big three. That's your tent, your backpack, and your sleeping bag.
[00:21:11] Ethan Gallogly: When, when you really get into this, you end up buying, you know, a little postal scale and weighing everything.
[00:21:19] And there are spreadsheet programs you can get and people publish their gear list. It, it, it gets obsessive, you know, it gets really obsessive. But, [00:21:30] you know, that's for long, long distances. If you're just going out for, you know, for a couple of days, you don't need to worry about all that. That's, you know, even for five days, you know, you're, it's only when the food weight starts getting up there that, that everything, you know, and you need to be doing bigger miles that, that the weight really, really starts to count.
[00:21:51] Katya Rucker: Ethan shared a word of caution that ultra-light backpacking can really lighten your wallet, because the lighter the gear, the more expensive it [00:22:00] tends to be. But fortunately, there are plenty of rental and thrifting options that can make a two-to-five day backpacking trip, both affordable and lightweight. As we neared the end of our conversation, I asked about how the backpacking experience changes when you're completely on your own out there, as opposed to the camaraderie you get from backpacking with a companion.
[00:22:23] Ethan Gallogly: Solo is a whole different experience. When you have no one [00:22:30] to talk to and you're out there on your own, maybe for a week or two at a time, a lot more starts happening in your head. You really go off into reflection and for some people, it can be really tough. Um, you have to be very comfortable inside your head, and for me, the first three days of being solo, it's a little disconcerting. You know, every noise, every crank of a [00:23:00] twig or something, you're like, you know, it's almost a little strange. But then you relax into your head and it's just fantastic.
[00:23:10] Katya Rucker: To me, this was one of the most unique things to love about backpacking. And something that puts it in pretty stark contrast with activities people do in shorter bursts, like baking cookies, or in my case, horseback riding. Many people describe a sense of flow or being completely in the moment when they engage in their [00:23:30] passions.
[00:23:31] But with backpacking, you're out walking for five or six hours on a trail and it gives you the time and space to actually let your mind wander and process emotions and experiences, and even connect some of the dots about things that have been a source of stress or confusion.
[00:23:46] Ethan Gallogly: I think very often you come back from the wilderness, uh, not just refreshed, but also with a better sense of who you are, of direction, of maybe things that you have to re-address in your life.
[00:24:00] Katya Rucker: Of course, it's still possible to spend time in contemplative silence while hiking with a companion, and Ethan doesn't recommend attempting a solo excursion for anyone who's brand new to backpacking. His final, but most important piece of advice was, regardless of whether you're going backpacking alone or with a friend, to always communicate where you're going and when you expect to be back with someone who's staying behind.
As Ethan and I reflected on the ways we had [00:24:30] each discovered our passions, we agreed that it really comes down to a willingness to take action without letting the possibility that we won't like something prevent us from at least trying it.
[00:24:41] Ethan Gallogly: You know, we're given these opportunities in life, but we have to grab them. We have to take them. And, you know, I, I think that's really the secret is when these little chances come up, when your friend calls you up and says, “Hey, do you want to go snowshoeing?” And it's something you've never [00:25:00] thought about, just say yes, go, try it. You never know. You never know what's going to turn into the next big thing for you.
[00:25:13] Katya Rucker: And that's probably what excites me the most. That there's still a next big thing for all of us out there. No matter what, we'll never run out of new things to try. I'd like to thank Ethan Gallogly for sharing his passion for backpacking on the I'd Rather Be [00:25:30] podcast. His novel, The Trail, which was inspired by his month-long journey along the John Muir Trail, was just published in November, and it's available on Amazon and bookstores and narrated as an audiobook on Audible.
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[00:26:00] This episode was hosted, produced and edited by me, Katya Rucker. Show notes and the full transcript for this episode can be found at idratherbepodcast.com. Have a great week, and thanks for listening.